Forget Jeter and Rivera, Posada is the real issue
March 19, 2010, 11:00 am by iYankees · 44 Comments
Jorge Posada will not go quietly. At 38 years of age, the possible Hall of Famer – given his position as a catcher, he is an interesting case – is eager to continue playing as he closes in on 40. After noting, just a few weeks ago, that he would only relinquish his New York Yankees uniform by force, Posada continued that theme in a piece today by the Bergen Record’s Bob Klapisch. “I’m not going to make it easy on anyone trying to move me out,” noted the fiery backstop, affirming his place as the Yankees’ catcher, despite their abundance of such talent in the minor leagues.
While everyone is quick to discuss Derek Jeter’s approaching free agency given its immediacy (as if he will ever leave, give me a break), Jorge Posada’s situation is much more interesting, even though his FA is still two years away, due at the end of the 2011 season. As Posada has indicated, his approach to free agency, barring a dramatic offensive depression, which can be expected at his age, will be a stubborn one, a hardline display of machismo and pride, amongst other traits. Now, what will the Yankees do if Jesus Montero proves himself as a catcher by that point? What about Austin Romine? If such a scenario unfolds, do you make a “hard” decision or do you make an “easy” one? What if Joe Mauer actually hits the market? What if Posada has a great 2011? If Posada wishes to continue playing at that point in time, the Yankees will be faced with some particularly tough decisions. When one considers the many question marks surrounding this specific matter – these question marks are intimately tied to Posada’s age as well as his position as a catcher – it becomes clear it stands as the central personnel issue for the Yankees in the near future.
So, while many worry – for no reason, really – about the futures of Derek Jeter or even Mariano Rivera, in reality, it is Jorge Posada that is the most interesting free agent case on the Yankees’ ledger (again, even if it is two years away).
Photo by Getty Images
I agree, Chris, there really isn’t any reason to worry about Jeter and Rivera. As for Posada, you raise some interesting questions. In my opinion, the Yankees need to get younger, not older. I see three scenarios that could possibly happen.
First, Montero proves himself as a catcher. If this is the case, then he should be the the catcher after Posada’s current deal expires. Posada could be brought back as a full time DH/sometimes backup catcher.
Second, Romine proves to be the best option (defensively) at catcher. If this is the case, Romine should be the catcher (he has a solid bat as well). Montero would probably be the DH at this point (way too slow to play the outfield and blocked at first by Tex). This would probably mean the end of Posada’s career, as a Yankee anyway.
Third, neither Montero or Romine are ready to catch in the majors, and Posada is signed to a one or two year deal. Montero would probably be the DH at this point.
It’s not a hard decision for me. If Montero or Romine are ready, the Yankees need to get younger and out from long-term deals with aging players (not a good business model for a baseball team).
What about Cervelli? In all three of these scenarios, I see him as the backup catcher. If that is the case, then Romine’s future is directly linked to Montero’s development as a catcher. If Montero proves himself as a catcher and Cervelli is the backup, then there is a good chance the Yankees would use Romine in a trade. Good catchers are hard to come by, and they might get a good return if they included him in a trade.
I don’t think the Yankees can afford to go after Mauer if he hits the open market. It would mean one more large, long-term contract that would leave the Yankees with very little flexibility. I feel the same about Crawford, but to a lessor extent.
I’d like to throw out another question. Why don’t baseball teams try to move up in the draft like teams do in other sports? It is hard to find top talent when you are always picking in the bottom third of each round. If the Yankees could package picks and a prospect maybe they could move up to get a top prospect. I don’t understand why this doesn’t happen in baseball.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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HD great post and the answer to your question Major league baseball does not allow teams to trade draftpicks like FOOTBALL.
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Thanks. Seems like an odd rule. It would make the draft a more interesting event if teams were allowed to deal.
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HD must stand for High Definition – becasuse your analysis is in 1080p !
The only issue I have is with this line:
I don’t think the Yankees can afford to go after Mauer if he hits the open market. It would mean one more large, long-term contract that would leave the Yankees with very little flexibility. I feel the same about Crawford, but to a lessor extent
Yes, I believe the Yankees are trying to be more fiscally responsible, yes, i believe the Yankees have some big dollars tied up in older players, yes, I believe CashMan/Hank overpaid Arod and AJ vs the market value, but the Yankees can afford anyone.
Their sales revemues, merchandising revenues, media network revenues are unprecedented in sports. They are the most profitable baseball team in the world and the 3rd richest sports team brand behind Manchester United and Barcelona. If last season proves one thing its that the Yankees will spend on FA’s if they need to.
If the Yankees want Mauer or Crawford, they will get Mauer or Crawford. (especially to keep them away from Boston)
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Poor choice of words on my part Twasp. Yes, the Yankees can afford dollar wise to sign anyone they choose to go after. I was thinking in terms of competitiveness.
The Yankees are saddled with a lot of long-term contracts that will see players playing well into their decline phase or past their prime (ARod, Jeter, Tex, CC, AJ, Rivera, Posada – if they do resign him). If the production from these players drops dramatically, the Yankees will have little flexibility to replace or add talent to help offset that decline. Add Crawford and Mauer to long-term deals and two more positions are blocked as they pass their prime.
If Jeter needs to change positions, where does he go? What happens to young catchers like Montero and Romine if you sign Mauer? Posada would become the DH. There is no place for either of them. It would be easier to replace CC or AJ because they could pitch in the bottom of the rotation and be replaced by younger pitchers via the farm system (hopefully) or free agency, but if you add Lee and another pitcher 30 years of age or older to a long-term deal, then you run into the same problem. I would like to see the Yankees more fiscally responsible, but money really isn’t the issue, it’s the length of the contracts that is the problem IMO.
I don’t want to see an old team that can’t compete at the high level we’ve all come to expect, and I don’t want to see top major league ready prospects blocked at every position.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Agreed – the danger is having a bunch of past their prime players on the field.
But signing Mauer or Crawford at 28 next year doesnt fit into that catagory. They are 8 years younger than Jeter. In 5 years when Jeter and Arod (40s) will be at the end of their careers Mauer and Crawford will be in their prime at 32.
It will be the passing of the torch.
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Here is my 2015 lineup:
Crawford lf
Jeter 3b
Mauer c
Texiera 1b
Montero dh
Cano 2b
Granderson cf
Swisher rf
Pena ss
Jeter will still be playing going for 4000
Hot debate. What do you think?
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LMAO!!! That lineup will never happen….
Hopefully a few minor league guys will step up like…
Almonte in CF
Montero at C
Joseph at 3rd
Adams at 2nd
Nunez at SS
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Rooster, I agree that Twasp’s lineup will never happen. I too would like to see some the younger guys develop into big league players. The addition of Towers will hopefully help the Yankees bring in better prospects to build for future success.
What does LMAO stand for? In my mind, I read lame-o.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Ha ha – “it means laughing my ass off” beacause the Roost is in a looney bin somewhere in Belview. Any one who thinks the farm system is going to produce players that will take those guys jobs away didnt read the report that ranks it as barren – 26 out of 30. Towers is no miracle worker.
Admittedly my lineup is shaky and thats why Im in an ambulance on the way to room with Rooster.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Well, that just gave me a good laugh. Thanks.
With the lineup you listed below, we’ll all be on our way to Belview. Maybe Nurse Ratched will let us watch the World Series if we behave ourselves.
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If you believe BA’s ranking you’re as dumb as Girardi! IMHO the Yankees have a better minor league system then the Sox and it will show this season. By the way everyone I mentioned has a good chance to make in MLB.
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Ha ha – who left the barnyard door open?
News flash – IMHO??? you ain’t humble.
Cock-a -doodle-don’t forget to pay me my bet when NJ bats second on opening day
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I never bet for opening day silly. I still believe the lineup I proposed will be used the most.
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With that lineup, we will definitely need to sing some big name free agents to long-term deals.
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With a record of 42-120, maybe we can find the next Jeter in the draft.
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We can sing about them, but we might want to sign them too.
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Crawford will be 29 this season and 30 when the Yankees would sign him. I’ve read post on this blog that indicate speed/defensive guys decline faster. I don’t know if that is accurate or not, but it is something to consider.
As for Mauer, I will concede that this would be passing the torch. I’d love to see him in pinstripes, although I think the best thing for baseball is if he stays in Minn (I’ve posted about that before). It would not be good for baseball to have all the top players in the AL East. Let’s say they do sign Mauer, what would you, Twasp, do with Posada, Montero, Romine, and Cervelli?
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Good catching is prime commodity – I would trade them for starting pitching. Id keep Monteros bat if its as good as they say.
Crawford is 28 at start of season and will be 33 at start of 2015. Yhere have been many speedsters that have excelled 33+.But like you I wouldn’t chance it. I think Gardy will turn out to be our speedster of the future.
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Crawford will never be a Yankee as Cashman will not pay him what he’ll want as he does not play a premium position.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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agreed
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If Posada wants to play in 2012 it will be with another team. There is no chance the Yankees sign him going forward.
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agreed
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I am not at all concerned about Posada’s FA because I assume his Yankee career is over when his contract is up. Unlike Mo and Jeter, Posada is the one with people in line to replace him.
They already have a defensive minded catcher proven to be able to play at a big league level (Cervelli) and their top two positional prospects are catchers (Romine and The Jesus).
With the comments they made about Matsui (didn’t want to retain him at a severely reduced salary due to fear he couldn’t handle walking back into the same locker room after such a paycut), I doubt they even negotiate with Posada if he wants to keep playing at that point.
I mean, why would they consider retaining a 40 year old catcher when they have 3 options to replace him? Even going on the assumption that we don’t know if Jesus sticks at catcher and that Romine/Cervelli would be questionable to handle the job fulltime, isn’t it also a huge question mark that a 40 year old catcher could handle the job anymore? Or even keep up his offensive production?
If Posada wants to keep playing after his contract runs out, it will be with another team. No doubt in my mind on that.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Ted, I don’t know if I’d close the door completely on Posada, but as I mentioned above, if Romine or Montero are viable options, then I’d have no problem letting Posada walk.
For those of you who gave Ted a thumbs down, let’s hear what you have to say. Do you think Posada will be a viable option for catcher at the age of 40? What other alternatives do you see?
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Ted couldnt be more right on this. What we have in the making is another Damon situation. An older player that can’t defend his position well, still has some pop in his bat, and has too much pride to take a substantial paycut with his existing team. Posada will end up on the 40+ FA DH pile. Eventually accepting $3m to dh and mentor on another AL team.
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This all sounds about right to me. It will be sad to see him go but as a catcher there’s no room for Posada after the current deal is done.
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TEDB, I got your back.WHERE ARE THE THUMBS DOWN GUYS?
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Thanks Ballpark. It seems all the regulars agree. Maybe some lurkers didn’t like the idea of giving Posada the cold shoulder (pun intended).
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tedbrogen is one of the few I don’t give thumbs down to…not this time either.
Posada is history after this contract. We have three very fine catchers coming on strong, by 2011/12 one or two of them will be ready to take over…or sooner.
Posada had a very good year in 2009 but, I have seen this happen before (see, Bernie W as the latest). Sometimes an ageing player has a “Brake-out Year”, before the down fall of age, catching up to them.
I like the help he has given the Yanks over the years and his tough attitude but, (unless you are superman) age catches up to everyone…even MO and Posada.
Someone suggested trading Romine, if Montero works out as a catcher with Cervelli as back-up. I don’t think so, even though one would get a better deal with Romine. Romine has a much better bat and is about as good with his “D” but, Cervelli is a players player, no big ego, just does his job and a little more…I like him a lot but, if Romine and Montero develop as projected…one of the three will go.
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Posada can barely handle the catcher position defensively now, in 2 years there is no way Yankee mgt will want him behind the plate. He’ll be thrown into the 40+ pile of free agent dh’s. We’ll probably see a Damon-like scenario = a poor defensive player, still with a little pop in his bat, with too much pride to be a part timer or take a big paycut with his existing team.
Jorge is not the type of guy to bow out gracefully – look for him DHing and mentoring for an AL opponent in 2012.
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I see Romine Lettuce and Montero Dressing as fine viable solutions to the fiery Posada enchilada. But don’t count out Mauer. He would be CRAZY not to test the FA market with all those huge $$$$ out there!
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Comfort zone…!
He will get a very big contract from “The Minies”, maybe not as much as the Yankees but, enough to keep him there for the duration…take it to the bank!
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“But in my opinion,” said one scout, “the next catcher for the Yankees will be Joe Mauer. Imagine if the Twins don’t sign him and he goes out there on the market next winter with both the Yankees and Red Sox in need of a catcher? That will be the wildest bidding war in baseball history, and don’t think his agent doesn’t know it. And if they (Twins) decide to trade him, the Yankees have the better pieces to get him.”
“there have been some unsettling rumblings out of Minneapolis and Fort Myers that the two sides remain far apart with an opening day deadline looming.”
= NY Daily News
I dont know if this means much, but this could get interesting.
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Thu Mar 11, 2010 7:44 am EST
Mauer trade possible?
By Mark J. Miller
Talks between the Minnesota Twins and American League MVP catcher Joe Mauer(notes) have been going slowly and it might be time soon for the Twins to start thinking about trading him, according to the Minneapolis Star-Tribune.
The Twins seem ready to give Mauer a deal unlike any it has offered any player before. But Mauer’s side is apparently dragging its feet, making it seem like Mauer wouldn’t mind seeing what he can do financially and on the field elsewhere.
The odds are still pretty high that Mauer will end up signing with the Twins but it doesn’t seem as much a sure thing as it did a few weeks ago. The word is that the team has offered more than $20 milion a season but Mauer may want around $25 million annually and that isn’t something the Twins really feel comfortable doing.
The Twins, of course, would like to open their new stadium with Mauer on board for the next zillion years but if he won’t sign, it seems likely that he could head elsewhere later this season.
Source: Minneapolis Star-Tribune
Hmmmmmmmmmmm………….
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According to Sports Business Journal a recent survey found that less than one-fourth of the country can identify Joe Mauer by face or name. By comparison, Derek Jeter and Brett Favre were recognized over 80 percent of the time.
In possibly related news, in November Joe hired IMG to get him endorsements:
NEW YORK, NY–(Marketwire – November 30, 2009) – IMG, the premier global sports, media and entertainment company, today announced that it has signed the 2009 American League Most Valuable Player, Joe Mauer, for marketing, sponsorships and endorsements.
If Joe wants endorsements I know where he can get some…..
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“Your mission, Twasp, should you choose to accept it….”
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Yeah, I know its a tough mission and Im actually torn whether I want him or not.
On one hand I would love to watch him play everyday and maybe he would ease the pain of watching derek and Mo and the Rod ride off into the sunset.
But on the other hand, do I really want the Yankees to just buy the championship each year becaause they have the most money? Wouldnt I rather see our young guys develop?
Do I really want to see him choose money over his hometown roots? Do I want such a good middle american, choose greed over truth, justice and the American way……
Look up in the sky…its a bird …. its a plane ……no its the Rooster …..poised to thumbs down another post!
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On the one hand, you have management wanting to get the payroll down, get younger, avoid luxury taxes, develop talent, on and on. On top of that, you have the expiring contracts of Jeter and Mo, Mauer looking for $20 million+/-, several key players who have only a couple of years left on their contracts….but then on the other hand, you have a proven star and potential Hall-of-Famer-in-the-making who could carry them beyond the Core Four and A-Rod….
Mauer is without question THE standout catcher in baseball…then again, what’s the life expectancy for a catcher? Do we want to lock ourselves into $20-25 million for 7-8 years on a position that takes a beating, especially given the fact that we have so much young talent in that position? And just think how much more the Yankees will be hated (yes, its possible to be hated more than we are now) if we swiped Mauer away from the small market Twinkies over the almighty dollar (of course if the Sox went after him and locked him up, it could be a huge blow against us for many years).
Its not a mission I would take on very readily…you captured my feeling on it when you said you were “torn”….
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Yeah – If Im the CashMan I stay out of it, until I get a hint he’s headed for Boston then I jump in with both feet.
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A lot will depend on how well the young talent does this year for the Yankees…if the young guys do well, it will give management more confidence to go it without Mauer if they choose to.
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Ha ha – you’ve conceded already that Girardi will start the season using NJ at 2 – OK Roost – for the season – its who will Girardi use at 2 more – Grandy/Swish or NJ. You’re on!
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