G44: Yankees @ Mets
May 23, 2010, 8:03 pm by iYankees · 252 Comments
Here are the lineups for tonight’s game:
YANKEES (26-17)
Jeter SS
Gardner CF
Teixeira 1B
Rodriguez 3B
Cano 2B
Swisher RF
Cervelli C
Russo LF
Sabathia P
CC Sabathia LHP (4-2, 3.43 ERA)
METS (21-23)
Reyes SS
Castillo 2B
Bay LF
Davis 1B
Wright 3B
Pagan CF
Barajas C
Francoeur RF
Santana P
Johan Santana LHP (3-2, 3.72 ERA)
If you’re not watching Lost, it looks like you’ll be treated to a great pitching matchup…
Jeez – Derek missed a ground ball up the middle that must have bounced 10 times. Just awful range. I think Rooster is right …the end is nearer than we all thought.
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Just be happy it’s happening NOW and not after a 4 year deal next season!
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Now Jete doesnt get to a pop-up in short LF and the announcers talk about his great hustle and heads up play for throwing the ball back to the infield??????? Yes and he walks on water and changes water into gatorade.
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And here I thought he urine turns to wine! Oh well I suppose Zeus took away his God membership!
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Looks like he got it back. With the game on the line in game 1 tonight, he makes the leaping pivot play in the hole with runners on 2nd and 3rd, saving the game, and after hitting the HR for the only run in the ballgame.
Haven’t heard anyone mention that tonight, though.
BTW: 5 HR and 28 RBI at this point in the season translates into approximately 20 HR and 90+ RBI this year…not bad for a leadoff hitter “nearing the end.”
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Joe Morgan is so stupid it should be a crime letting him anywhere near a microphone.
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And who is the other pinhead in the booth?
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Am I thinking correctly in that he played third for the Yankees? Aaron Boone?
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If it is ….he’s a dope. Its amazing how unintelligent most ballplayers sound in the booth ..isn’t it?
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Moron’s rule at ESPN!
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Roost – you never told me how come you know so much about minor leaguers and their contracts?
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Twasp I did post an answer but got the this post needs moderation lol.
Here is a link to a good article that should help a bit.
http://bestblog.mlblogs.com/archives/2007/02/whos_got_option_1.html
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Thanks Roost thats a good article. Is there any special reason why you like following the farm system so much? Its unusual for the average fan.
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It’s fun as you can follow the draft picks along with the July 2nd international free agents. It’s fun to read the box scores every night. I also read Thunder Thoughts and the SWB blog along with my Pinstripes Plus membership.
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Do you like following the minor league yankees morethan the ML Yankees?
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No not really I enjoy the entire organization to be honest.
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If it weren’t for Aaron Boone, the Yankees would not have A-Rod. Boone injured himself in the off-season playing basketball, and the Yanks went out and got A-Rod as a result.
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I knew there was a reason I disliked Boone. He won us a pennant but lost us 5.
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Technically, you are correct, T-Wasp…can’t argue against that point. When the final chapter is written we’ll know if it was all worth it.
Gotta run…later.
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Rooster – Russo just over-threw the cut-off man allowing a met to go to second….tsk..tsk….tsk…
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Jason Bay ? second HR of the year?
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Jeter again misses the ball over the middle.
He’s getting horrible jumps on the grounders and thats reflexes. And reflexes are what go first as you get older (I think?) Ken(C&C) is that true?
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He needs to take off those Herman Munster shoes!
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Legs, legs, legs, then reflexes…then your job!
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Now Boone is saying he would get blisters from spinning the wheel on strat-o-matic. There was no wheel in strat-o-matic – there is dice?
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GB’s up the middle, short pop-ups dropping in the OF, pass balls, wild pitches, missing cut-off men…Someone put a tent over this circus!
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From Denis Savage at Scout.com – supporting what Ballpark has been saying:
Best Bullpens:
American League
1. Detroit Tigers
Jose Valverde has been dynamite as the closer. Ryan Perry an emerging young reliever. Eddie Bonine the key long man. Joel Zumaya is throwing bullets. Phil Coke was a steal from the Yankees. There aren’t many misses
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Everything is not working right now for the Yankees. As a team they are slumping and it shows. These things usually right themselves rather quickly.
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They are really playing poorly. We are not even in these games. Ever since the Marcus Thames dropped pop up game against Boston when we turned a 5-0 lead into a 7-6 loss we have been behind by multiple runs in every game except for Friday night when we got a gem from Javy and a clutch hit by Russo to win 2-1.
Other than that in the last 3 losses we have been scoring our only runs late in the games after we are already down by 4 or more runs.
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We started the season 21-8 thanks to the great pitching of CC/AJ/Andy/Phil and the great play of Cano, Gardner, Cervelli & Swisher.
Since then, all of the above players have come back down to Earth and NO ONE has stepped up to lead the team. As a result we are 5-10 since blowing out Boston 24-6 in the first 2 games in Fenway. Yanks have been badly hurt by injuries but that is not an excuse. We desperately need ARod and Tex to start coming through in the clutch, hitting some HRs and driving in runs.
Another few days playing like this and we will be in 4th place b/c TB, TOR & BOS are all playing well.
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The team is an absolute mess right now.All aspects of the team are struggling at the same time,when that happens you have to lose.Injury’s will be blamed by most for this skid but they are only a part and just magnify the poor roster construction of this Cashman Team.
Starting pitching;Started great and has slumped as a group.Someone needs to step up and start the ball rolling again.This is a very solid group that will turn it around and if this team is going to make the Post season it will be on their shoulders or should I say arms.No changes needed.
Bullpen;The pen is a mess and for the 1st time in years there’s no help down below.Last years pen was the best in the game,whats changed?No Hughes,Coke,and Ace is hurt.Robertson is a mess Logan can’t throw strikes and Marte unless he’s in the WS looks like he does’nt give a crap.Park has the runs!This group worries me and a reliable power arm will have to be aquired to fix the leak.Any IDEAS??
OFFENSE;what can you say ,This lineup was torn apart and never put back together by Cashman.Its no longer a circular lineup void of the power it had last year and just does’nt go together.
1-Jete-has become Vlad without power.
2-Gardy went from not playing to the 2 hole, he needs to bat 9th were he’s less exposed,this is not a knock on Gardy I love his game but let the kid develop with less pressure,Right now he can’t replace Damon.
3-Tex is getting to the point when its no longer considered a slump but a serious problem ADDING LAST POST SEASON WITH THE 1/4 OF THIS SEASON AND ITS A BIG BODY OF WORK.He is the biggest problem with this lineup!!!
4-Arod seems the fire isn’t there currently,he hasn’t been bad but not what most expect.
5-Cano has been good ,still not sure if he can handle hitting behind Arod.
6-Swish is the one vet that is hitting better than last year.I thought this would happen due to the changes in his mechs.He’s the lone bright spot of the returning starters,Cano minus the 5 hole question that still needs to be answered.
7-Posada has hit well when not hurt but his D has been bad.
7A-Cervelli-GREAT
8-9 WHAT A MESS Winn is making me miss Melky
The help to this offense may come from within.Granderson should help,Miranda should be given the DH role and see if his great power and swing can translate into Major League success.If those 2 guys can produce and Tex WTFU the team should score alot of runs.
Sorry I wrote so much can someone else do the BENCH?
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Ballpark do not worry about the bench as there’s to many more aspects that need to right themselves first!
I hope your feeling well?
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Don’t worry about the bench? We have no bench. Cashman went for old farts and now that there are injuries he has had to play them…TUMS, Randy Lost. Poor roster construction.
Cervelli at third????
Luckily we have some good young guys- I like Russo’s at-bats he can play and Miranda has a good swing. Pena has shown what we already knew- good glove not a good bat. No replacement for Jete.
CashMan should be fired for breaking up a team that ran away with the division and and won the WS just a season ago! And putting this circus act on the field?
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Eduardo Nunez imho will replace Jeter as he’s maturing into a very very good young SS!
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rooster…
How is Nunez shaping up with the glove…I know he can hit?
Congratulations for moving up to the #4 spot…thanks!
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Ken, Nunez is doing very well with the glove. He’s always had a canon for an arm and much better range then Jeter when he was a youngster. As for errors remembering that MiLB infields are not nearly as good as MLB ones he’s cut his error percentage down more then half. Last year in AA Trenton he had 33 errors in 120 games for basically an error every 4 games. This year as a SS in AAA he’s made 4 errors playing in 36 games for an error every 9 games. So yes his glove at SS is getting better.
He has made additional errors while playing 2nd and 3rd but I am only counting the errors made at SS. Please note that Nunez for his career has hardly played those positions.
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Like I said once before; I saw him play last year (3 games, I think) and the year before, he didn’t impress me at all. That’s why I ask! Looking at the stats, tell me he is hitting and I saw his range and arm in person. When I saw him, he didn’t hit much at all but had a couple of errors. Errors in the minors don’t bother me much (for same reason as you said) but, when they are throwing errors, I wonder. Has that improved at all?
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Ken you can get a free 7 day trial at Pinstripes Plus and today there happens to be a new article on Nunez. It’s a good read. Patrick who runs the site has always been a huge supporter of Nunez’ talent.
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Roost – you can get advanced tickets to CashMan’s Follies II playing this coming off-season on Bway!
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Is that our Patrick?
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When there is a limit on the payroll that means they are going to have to cut corners somewhere else. So there you have guys like winn and thames who were never meant to play as much.
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That was the plan for them to only fill small roles. Thames was brought in to be a pinch hitter likely for Granderson but Donkey expanded his role. Winn was brought in to give days off to the corner outfielders but injuries expanded his role. Also he hasn’t bounced back from last years poor season like he was expected to. Nick Johnson was a risk worth taking. He played very well last year and was healthy. The Yankees had Miranda now up in reserve in case of the potential/inevitable injury.
Now we get to find out if Russo can play the outfield and hit enough to stay. We get to find out if Miranda can bring much needed left handed power plus obp. This may end up being a good thing long term.
The bullpen is a different story. They really need an effective lefty out there. I think it’s time to give Royce Ring a shot. He’s been pitching lights out down in AAA over 15 innings.
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very well said rooster that is an excellent post
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BCD – This post is a c+ at best and not up to iYankees top ten standards. Please name 3 holes in Rooster’s logic and how you would correct them.
Thank you,
Prof TWASP
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No can do sir his post as I said before is excellent.
*twasp faces the blackboard*
*BCD throws paper airplane @ Prof Twasp and runs out of the the classroom*
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OK I’ll have to do it for you:
1. Both Cashman and Girardi wanted to ease Gardner into the role as they were not certain he could be a full time hitter just yet. They also wanted to get Thames at bats so he wouldnt be stale on the bench when they needed him later. So the plan was to play Thames against tough LHs (this is all documented)
2. There was absolutely no reason to take that risk and jump at Johnson – both Damon or Matsui could have fit the DH role. Sitting down and negotiating like adults would have been mutually beneficial for BorAss and CashAss.
3.Nicky did not have a great season last year and something was wrong -in almost 600 pa’s he had only 8 hrs. Red flags red flags ….check the wrists…check the back….check his pockets for donuts.
4. Yes Randy Lost has not played up to expectations…whose expectations? CashMan’s. He brought him in and now he’s responsible for his decaying talent.
There I gave you 4 instead of 3…want more? come back to class
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I think this is the bottom, there is no way Joe and Cashman are going to let this kind of play stand. Two games to the MUTs? Unbelievable!
Maybe, Joe should sit Jeter and Tex for a few games, he-l if we are going to lose games with them, why not see if we can win one with someone else playing!
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Donkey Joe does not have the cojones to bench Jeter!
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Jete’s sub-par defensive range is now becoming more obvious as his reflex reaction to the ball of the bat slows.
Tex may have peaked last year and now is on his way to a post PEDs Giambi-like player .250/.380 30 hrs 90 rbis
Arod still stings the ball and is dangerous but flyballs that used to go over the fence are frequently caught on the warning track one Boli vial short of a HR.
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Twasp what is more discouraging to me is Jeter’s Awe Shucks reactions to missing those 20 hoppers. I keep seeing and hearing on TV that Jeter has an Edge but I just can’t see it anymore.
Thank God that Nunez is playing well down in AAA!
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Or HGH…not uncommon for many of the “former” power hitters out there to have “reduced” power numbers…look at the power numbers across baseball…we’re back “the age of speed and defense” (ie: until the next designer drug comes along to evade testing).
No more 50-HR seasons coming anytime soon….
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Ernie – welcome back – does HGH give power enhancement results? I thought it was just used for quicker rehabilitation. But I havent really looked at it.
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Hey Twasp…have been traveling since Friday morning…
HGH does in fact enhance power, by building lean muscle mass. But HGH also enhances energy levels and recovery ability. There is quite a bit out there documenting the effects of HGH on athletes…this is from bodybuilding and fitness expert Dane Fletcher – Executive Editor of Bodybuilding Today:
- “HGH boosts lean muscle mass, increases energy levels, and reduces body fat. Growth hormone (also) promotes faster recovery. In a sports world, the man who can heal faster from a tough workout (or the rigors of a long season) will be the man who signs the bigger contract.
- When coupled with any other compound, the effects of both the HGH, and the other compound, are multiplied. This means stacking growth hormone with a simple oral steroid will make the steroid more effective, and will make the HGH more effective. For this multiplier effect, growth hormone is extremely popular in off-season regimens when athletes will often stack up the compounds.
- Growth hormone helps to heal connective tissue injuries. In many contact sports, it is connective tissue injuries which can be the most detrimental. They aren’t muscle injuries, which you can train to prepare for – they are joint failures from outside contact. Growth hormone makes them heal faster, which gets athletes back on the field faster.
- Increased oxygen uptake is another side effect of growth hormone. Any athlete running 99 yards carrying a football, being chased by 11 angry men in pads, knows the importance of every bit of oxygen he can pull into the lungs.”
- The biggie: HGH is undetectable to current MLB testing.
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Is HGH legal over-the-counter stuff that can be bought at GNC?
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No its a controlled substance.There are plenty of doctors that will prescribe it under their supervision.Stallone has been on it and endorsing it for years.
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Marcus TUMS and Curtis (being a bachelor is dandy) Granderson have strengths but severe flaws.
NJ was a mistake.
Randy Lost is a deer caught in the headlights.
The starting pitching has come back to earth.
AJ will be inconsistent,
Andy will age,
Hughes is not quite there yet but close to stardom,
Javy isn’t as bad as he’s shown, but dont count on big wins at critical times,
CC is not Superman and cannot carry us alone to the WS again.
The bullpen is in shambles
Charmin Low Park’s diareah has subsided but his gopher balls haven’t.
Marte isn’t as good a LOOGIE as Coke, and thats not saying much.
Melancan gets lit up whenever he gets called up.
Boone Loogan couldnt find the plate with a GPS.
Mediocre Mitre and Ace aren’t going to set the night on fire.
Mo is slow. Lets hope it doesn’t go.
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Twasp I will agree with all but Melancon as it seems to me that he’s trying to be a little to fine. He’s pitching to STAY up instead of just throwing the ball. This is just lack of experience. He should be the 6th reliever ahead of Logan.
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T-man whats up buddy,I wrote a long winded post above and need you to wrap it up.
Did you hear the Ellsbury rumor to Detroit for Grandeson?Wonder if Cashman got pulled into a bad deal by Theo?
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The Sox likely pulled out because Granderson bats left handed.
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Roost I’m HANGIN IN THERE T-MINUS 9 DAYS AND COUNTING.Thanks for asking.I hope the Yanks are playing better before I go in,IT would help lift my spirits.
The story is Theo said no to trading Ellsbury for Grandeson,was it a ploy?
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I don’t know about that but anything an everything is possible. There is a lot of disinformation out there.
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Whats wrong with being LH?
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There is nothing wrong with being left handed. But for the Sox they were likely looking for right handed power instead.
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why?
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Twasp how can you not see that with both Drew an Elsbury the Sox had 2 left handed hitting starting outfielders and likely would rather have the third right handed hitting. Plus there 4th outfield Hermida is left handed hitting as well.
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BP is in the Houuuuuuuse!
Wow thats an amazing rumor if true. Shows that CashHog has finally realized he got pick-pocketed by Detroit and is now trying to dump Curt (party all night long) Granderson. Ha ha…..soon it will be trading NJ. Talk about botching a championship team!
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“Talk about botching a championship team!”
so do you think they should have not made any changes?
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I think they needed another starting pitcher. I dont think I would have chosen Javy though. He did have some good fit attributes : high K ratio, innings horse … and Melky was the most expendable of the starters….but I don’t think I would have pulled the trigger.
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Twasp, Melky is GARBAGE! In 141 pa with Atlanta he’s producing a .570 OPS! His UZR is -2.6 and his WAR is a -.7. He is proving again this season that he is nothing but a AAAA player!
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I know thats why I said he was expendable.
Yeah and I would rather eat porterhouse steak but I’ll take a rib-eye if you give me one.
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True they didn’t have to choose javy but I guess they felt he was the best option to go for.
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BCD please change your handle to “Theatre of the Obvious”
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ummmmmmmmmmmmmm no
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good, way to man up. you have the best handle
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thank you twasp
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BCD here’s what I would have done;
1-No Granderson trade.I would have kept Ajax to compete with Gardy as the staring CFer with 2 other possibilities, a platoon in CF and 4th OFer/defensive replacement. I would have kept IPK and Coke,adding pitching depth and improving the pen.
2-5 mil to Matsui was a no brainer and should have been Cashman’s 1st move making Damon easier to deal with.This would have eliminated the NJ move.
3-Wait out Damon and when his price dropped and became resonable sign him.7 mil with a 2nd year option.
4- I have to be honest based on what was available and what they gave up I was in favor of the Vasquez trade,and thought it was a neccasary move.
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Yeah I thought it was a necessary move to get another starter, I would have looked at more fish in the water. Fish with hearts. I would have given JD same as Abreu got. I would have given Matsui same as Abreu got. I would have not gotten NJ,Grandy,Javy,Park,Thames and Winn. Losers all.
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T-MAN I agree in total but I have to be honest that Javy was a move I supported ,doesn’t look to good right now but Yanks needed a starter and they were shot down on DOC and LEE and the FA market was thin.In Hindsight Piniero might have been a better sign?Javy may still turn out to be useful although I HAVE MY DOUBTS.
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Yeah – I understood why it was done when it happened.I just dont like trading for players that have once failed here. I think he is a good pitcher and will win games for us, I just dont want him out there in big games.
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The lineup would have looked like this;
SS-JETER
LF/DH-DAMON
1B-TEX
3B-AROD
DH-MATSUI
C-POSADA/CERVELLI
2B-CANO
LF-SWISH
CF-GARDY/AJAX
BENCH-PENA/MIRANDA/HOFFMAN/RUSSO KEEP 2 FROM THIS GROUP
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looks great keep russo and miranda
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T-MAN that would have been 105 win team.It also would have given flexibilty for 2010.
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Ballpark that would have worked just fine but it didn’t happen. So now there is need of a new plan. This year and next are transition years heading towards 2012. The moves last off season were stopgaps.
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just like 2008 was stop gap yr or am I completely wrong
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Stopgaps?????
We ran away with the division…..swept the Twins…and kicked our nemesis ass in less than 7 games…and blew out the defending champs! Stop gaps why???????
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You made some good points. I don’t agree with all of them but I see where you’re coming from.
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BCD- which points do you not agree with and why? Cowboy up or leave the rodeo!
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the granderson deal I still would have done for the players they gave up
I agree with the matsui point although I understand why the yanks let him go
Damon had his chance and he blew it
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ridiculous remark about Damon. credit lost
understand yankees on matsui. credit lost
grandy happy. credit lost
Luckily your handle keeps you on the ++
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*fist pumps* YES my handle keeps me safe for another week
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T-man I bet BCD thought the Jay Buhner for Ken Phelps was a good trade too.BCD did you?
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BCD I hope your right because right now Damon ,Ajax and Coke might put Detroit in the playoffs instead of us.
The Rays will runaway with the East.Widcard will be Yanks Tigers and the R-SOX. I ‘d say you have about a 33% chance of making the playoffs due to the horrible dismantling and poor construction of our championship team!!!!
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The rays are hot but we have to see what happens when they hit a speed bump which has not happened as of yet. I don’t think they are going to run away with the division just yet
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Ballpark when is Jackson going to play again after getting head plunked? Will he be effective coming back?
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BCD break down the talent on both sides and the circumstance and please tell me how this is a good trade and even with hindsight why can’t you see it?
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We got an all-star center fielder in the prime of his career for a right hand pitcher that couldn’t cut it here, a lefty reliever that had a 4.50 ERA who was prone to giving up the long ball, and a young CF that is projected to be Curtis Granderson. I’m sorry I can’t stress over kennedy tearing up the NL west or Coke pitching well in 22 games, or A-jax being hot in the first 2 months of the season. You want to make a case about the depth of the pitching fine but where would Kennedy fit in exactly. Javy was pitching poorly so Mitre stepped in and did a fine job. I’m not a Kennedy hater but I had no problem with them trading him and coke in a package for Granderson. It would have been nice seeing A-jax patrol CF but they didn’t feel like taking a chance on him. Curtis is not a slouch when it comes to playing the game. He has a good arm, can hit for power, steal bases, and plays the game hard.
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Joe must go.
Cash must dash.
Miley must come.
or Hal is dumb.
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Joe must go….Definitely
Cash must dash…He deserves a promotion to team President with a firing of Levine
Miley must come…I have been saying this for what seems like forever
or Hal is dumb…do you really go to Jimmy Johnson’s (football coach) hair salon?
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The good side:
Gardy is an all-star in the making.
Cano is a genius with the glove and bat.
Russo is a tough kid that can play at the ML level.
Miranda can rake.
Cervelli is a marvel catching and his bat has been an incredible surprise
Posada defensive skills are shot, but he’s still a very dangerous hitter. A good DH.
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Good thing I thought of that! He, He he
Right on Twasp!
How about giving a shout out to the rooster, he is now hitting #4…thank the gods. I was getting a nose bleed, and the pressure was unbearable at times.
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Dear Mr. Rooster:
You have gone from almost being DFA’d for your disrespectful comments to the MGR Mr Girardi to batting clean-up because of your knowledge of our farm team. Congratulations. But remember Prof. Ken (C&C) is right behind you and doesnt like to lose! So keep your eyes open.
iYankees Comment mgr
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How can truthful comments about Donkey Joe ever be disrespectful?
Someone needs to step up and tell him to stop wearing his wife’s panties!
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Wearing his wife’s panties …. thats disrespectful.
Its almost like calling a woman dog-faced. Almost….
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Darn…I really tried to be nice.
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Sorry rooster, you didn’t make it!
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Honestly Ken I was really trying very hard to be nice!
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$200m – you would have won the championship more than once in the last 9 seasons if you were GM Roost. Jeez Boston won it twice with half the money.
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We all know that Yankees organization over the last decade has been dysfunctional. Cashman is laying the foundation for a better future. A future with talented youngsters along with the ability to sign the better free agents. The future is good.
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When did he have this epiphany?
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I would say the 2005 season when wang and cano came up. Some fans and the media didn’t even know who they were. Hell they didn’t even know if they were good prospects. Among portions of the fan base they were viewed as stopgaps until the yankees could trade for or sign someone better. I still remember the trade deadline that season when the yankees were in need for some OF help because bernie was having a hard time in CF. The feeling in NY was Ibanez was the guy to go after and wang and maybe even cano would have to go in the deal. Cashman came out and said that they would not trade wang or cano because they have helped the team and they want to hold onto them. Yankee fans and especially mike and the mad dog laughed at that statement because it’s the yankees and they never build for the future. It’s always about winning now and they would trade any young player if they it meant a chance to win the WS. This time was different. The trade deadline came and went with wang/cano still on the team. Wang and cano performing well in 2005 showed cashman:
that the org. could produce players from their system
that younger players can step up in a time of need
that their prospects can gain valuable ML experience
that the team had to get younger as well as look from within first and then outside second
Now of course this is NY and they still lean toward vets in some situations but as rooster said cashman is laying the foundation for the future. I was on the YES board and many fans painted a bleak future when the team missed the post season in 08. I felt that many of the pieces were already here and the future although not a guarantee was not as bad as ppl made it out to be.
Cashman’s biggest play was getting more power within the org. That way he allow the organization to focus more on developing the system and letting older players go. Now yes he has made his fair share of mistake which have been pointed out by numerous members on here but he is taking steps to build a team that is flexible. The problem he’s going to run into is the older players on the team that are not ready to leave
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Much much too long an essay. Please use bullet-points and get straight to your points.
Also please reread your essay when not looking at your Cashman 8×10 signed glossy.
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I was thinking it was very long when I wrote it. Unfortunately I don’t feel like removing any of my points but I’ll try to make it more pleasing to the eye
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Don’t touch it, it was great and very concise.
Both you and rooster get it. It takes some of the older fogies time to realize it is a dynasty, like the 50s, we are trying to build, not a one and out team.
All anyone has to do is look around! Tampa for example; almost all home grown (early picks I know) and young. Toronto the same.
Baltimore, the same.
If JD were still here, Brett would still be a back-up to him or A-Jax. JD is good (so far) but what about next year or the next. The same goes for the other guys.
Let’s give credit were credit is due! Cashman and his hardheadedness!
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Concise?
Gone with the Wind was shorter.
It was longer than Rooster nose when he’s telling a lie about Girardi.
BCD fell asleep 3 times while writing it.
Nick Johnson ate two sacks of White Castle in the time it took BCD to write it.
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Caught you ——-you Damon hater———it was all about Gardner…….wasn’t it? I knew it…….shhhhhh….your secret is safe with me Ken (C&C)……
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Not so fast there, oh winged stinger!
I said he would be back-up to A-Jax and JD, with the scenario being that A-Jax and JD were to play in the OF. If only JD came back, JD would have been regulated to DH and a sometime LF for whom ever needed a rest in the OF and Brett would have been in LF/CF. A-Jax would have stayed in AAA until call-ups.
Sorry Stinger, no gotcha this time -10 points.
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BRAVO…..BRAVO……BELLISSIMO….KUDOS…..
*the red sox fans, the tampa bay fans, the phillie fans are on their feet cheering*
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Thanks Ken I appreciate it and you brought up a very good point which is the yankees are trying to build another dynasty. With cashman at the helm he’s doing his best to not get sentimental when it comes to the older players. These older players are more than liking not going to leave on their own. Hell bernie williams has been out of the game since the end of 06 and he still thinks he can play. Cashman has made his mistakes such as the joba chamberlain situation. That whole thing still bothers me but along with the bad moves…he has made some good ones as well.
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BCD – name 3 without repeating the ones I already said on this string.
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Very true BCD.
As old as I am, one would think I would be the one standing up for the older players.
Not so, I was taught a harsh truth in the service, when I was 57 (give or take a year), I made a bad call in the field, luckily no one was lost. But, I knew it was my fault. I asked to leave field work and went into planning, oversight and evaluation. I had been to tiered to make the right call…age, don’t you know, it catches up to all of us.
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That is an interesting story Ken. Thank you for sharing it with us.
It occurs in many different walks of life when someone has to be steered in a alternative direction especially when they have so much pride and passion for a role that they have done for the majority of their lives. For example it’s not going to be easy telling jeter he has to change positions
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BCD…very good post! I firmly agree with everything you’re saying here.
I don’t dwell on the past when it comes to choices the Yankees made. I see right now a bunch of youngsters with talent at AAA an AA.
The Yankee have three young catchers in Cervelli, Montero, and Romine.
Adams and Nunez both have elite potential to form a plus DP combo for years if they stay healthy.
Laird has finally gotten off to a good start hitting above .290 with an OBP around .350. He has 8 homeruns and 39 rbi in 42 games with a very solid arm at third.
Jorge Vazquez showed this spring he can hit but unfortunately he’s out with an appendix.
Colin Curtis, Daniel Brewer and Austin Krum all have 4th outfielder potential.
Add both Miranda and Russo into the mix and the Yankees cupboard isn’t nearly as bear as it’s made out to be.
If only 3 of those 12 step up the Yankees will be thrilled.
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Very nice write up on the guys coming up.
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Thanks roost.
Yes the future for the yankees is not as bleak as some fans think it is. There are areas they need to improve on and their are changes that have to be made to the way the develop and handle players but this system is not the black hole that many fans make it out to be. The best thing that happened to the yankees is young guys like robertson, hughes, joba, cervelli, and garnder have all stepped up in their short careers.
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Good post BCD – “put your hands up…..”
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*does chamberlain fist pump*
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“I was on the YES board and many fans painted a bleak future when the team missed the post season in 08. I felt that many of the pieces were already here and the future although not a guarantee was not as bad as ppl made it out to be”
.If the Yankees werent worth 1.6 billion dollars (partially because they charge disgracefully high prices for tickets, merchandising, food etc.) Cashman wouldnt have been able to buy Tex/AJ/CC and the fans on the Yes board would have been right. And Cashman would have gone 10 years without a championship even though the org had 2 to 5 times more money than any other team.
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you have a point he has benefited from being the GM of a wealthy team. Last yr his big tickets paid off. He had to go after those guys and it occurred at the right time…when roughly 80 million dollars came off the payroll. I guess it’s true what they say timing is everything. It’s a good thing we have those 3 guys because it would have been tough going forward
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Exactly – you’re learning now…the “Odd Couple” commenters are asleep. Shhhhhhh……don’t wake them…..they’re grouchy….
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*purposely wakes up “odd couple” commentators * Oops
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LOL
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I have been having a hard time staying awake reading the stuff written by that guy with the fly sticking on the corner of his comments. Who is that guy anyhow?
Oh he-l, it’s the Wasp man!
BCD…
You have been doing yeoman’s work tonight, good job. I don’t see much that I can disagree with at all.
rooster is on board also, I think…I don’t want to put words in his mouth, but it sounded like he was.
I wounder when Twasp and others will get over the fact that, no mater what JD, A-Jax, Coke etc., do…it has no bearing on this team. This team is what it is, we must live with it until changes are made…if they are made.
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I appreciate the kind words.
You made a very good point those deals are done and there is no way we can get those players back. I understand fans being frustrated but thats to be expected when prospects they followed for yrs thrive somewhere else.
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BCD: We are nearly 6 years into Cashman’s expanded GM role and 12 years+ into his GM tenure…we have the highest payroll in the majors and the most financial resources to work with. Optimistically, we are in the middle of the pack (15th out of 30) with our minor league system, but realistically we are more likely near the bottom of the pack with that system. At what point do we stop cutting Cashman so much slack and hold him accountable?
Without those “older players” you allude to (Pettitte, Mo, Jeter, Posada, Damon, Matsui, A-Rod)….we don’t win the WS last year, period. Our up-and-coming talent didn’t win if for us last year – the vets did. Thank goodness the older guys weren’t ready to leave last year or we’d have nothing to show for it.
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The yankees won last yr because for the first time in a long time they had pitching. Pitching and clutch hitting wins in the PS. All those guys you mentioned were on the team in 07 but yet they failed to beat the Indians that yr. The fact of the matter is the yanks have taken steps to improve their team over the past couple of yrs. They have tried their best to infuse some youth in the organization and although there are still areas they have to work on they have succeeded in changing the ball club.
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BCD: Pettitte, AJ, and CC cost the Yankees nearly $50 million dollars last year. I’ll say that again: $50 MILLION, on 3 guys. They had that pitching because they have a blank checkbook, not because they “changed the ballclub.” If they had $125 million payroll to work with last year, they win nothing last year – NOTHING.
They won because A-Rod hit several clutch HRs late in games in the post season. They won because Jeter had a phenomenal year, offensively and defensively. They won because Mo was the only closer to not blow a save in the post season. They won because Damon gritted out a tough AB and stole 2 bases to set up a late win in the pivotal game of the WS. They won because Matsui hit .600 in the WS and drove in 6 runs in the deciding game. Pitching or no pitching, those guys don’t perform, they win nothing.
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Without good pitching those hit wouldn’t have matter, would they.
You win or lose as a TEAM not one or two guys. We had good pitching and good hitting…we won, they lost! End of story!
Without the $50m for pitching…they win, we lose!
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You’re right, Ken, that it all goes together – pitching, defense, hitting, etc…agreed.
BCD said, in the same breath: “The yankees won last yr because for the first time in a long time they had pitching” while also he said “They have tried their best to infuse some youth in the organization and although there are still areas they have to work on they have succeeded in changing the ball club.”
This doesn’t jive with what has actually happened.
Its true the Yanks pitching was improved last year. This had absolutely nothing to do with any brilliant moves on the FO’s part. The only reason that was true was because they spent $50 MILLION dollars on pitching…and the pitching they brought in was not “youth” – we picked up CC, AJ, and renewed Andy – average age in their mid-30’s.
If Cashman had been doing his job properly over the last 12 years, you would think we would have a few arms coming up in the system that might be rotation-worthy – is that reasonable to expect from the richest baseball franchise on planet earth?
As far as infusing young talent into the ballclub is concerned, please remember that Cashman has been at the GM helm for 12 years. Our minor league system is a wreck, by any standard of measure. The most optimistic appraisal of the Yankee system is that we are in the middle of the pack at best, the more pessimistic (realistic?) say we’re at the bottom. Meanwhile, it is universally agreed in baseball circles that our two closest competitors in the AL East have among the top 5 minor league systems.
Why are people throwing so much support behind Cashman? just because he’s an “upgrade” to George? Please give me something tangible?
Where is the accountability?
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If I remember right; he only got full control of the organization less then five years ago. One doesn’t change an organization and its way of thinking in five years. Before his complete control, he and “The Tampa Cabal” had many fights, many of which Cashman lost. He was never in full control during those years. In fact, he told The Boss he would quit unless he had full control, they gave it to him. Now he has to work within a budget put in place by Hal, if Cash had not pushed real hard, Hal wouldn’t have given him the money for Tex, at the last minute.
I have run companies and have (in these last few years) been a consultant for others, after selling my company.
It is never an easy thing to change a small company, let alone one as big as the Yanks.
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“Its true the Yanks pitching was improved last year. This had absolutely nothing to do with any brilliant moves on the FO’s part. The only reason that was true was because they spent $50 MILLION dollars on pitching…and the pitching they brought in was not “youth” – we picked up CC, AJ, and renewed Andy – average age in their mid-30’s.”
so not trading hughes for santana wasn’t a brillant move. Hughes was one of the reasons the yankees made it to the PS. Finding a diamond in the rough like Aceves wasn’t a brilliant move. Mid season pick-ups like hairston and hinske weren’t good acquisitions for the bench. Replacing bullpen arms like veras, alby, and bruney with robertson, aceves, and hughes were not brilliant moves. They remade their pen in a couple of months and it turned into a strength. Now they did screw things up like the wang situation.
“If Cashman had been doing his job properly over the last 12 years, you would think we would have a few arms coming up in the system that might be rotation-worthy – is that reasonable to expect from the richest baseball franchise on planet earth?”
Yea you can put the blame on cashman because he is the GM. My thing is how hard do you think it would be to change the philosophy of your employer. Remember this is george steinbrenner we’re talking about. The same guy wanted to win ST training games. The same guy that traded players away because they struggled in the subway series. I’m not taking all of the blame of of cashman because he has his fair share of mistakes(kei igawa) but for ppl to just put everything on his shoulders is not right.
“As far as infusing young talent into the ballclub is concerned, please remember that Cashman has been at the GM helm for 12 years. Our minor league system is a wreck, by any standard of measure. The most optimistic appraisal of the Yankee system is that we are in the middle of the pack at best, the more pessimistic (realistic?) say we’re at the bottom. Meanwhile, it is universally agreed in baseball circles that our two closest competitors in the AL East have among the top 5 minor league systems.”
5 yrs ago the yankees roster had no type of youth what so ever…no at all. But right now look who is on this team robertson, cano, hughes, joba, gardner, cervelli, etc. Do those guys not count. Are those players not apart of the team.
True the rays and red sox have very good systems no one can take that away from them. The thing that ppl forget is 1 the rays have been collecting picks for a number of yrs and 2 the red sox made the right decision many yrs before the yankees to focus on the farm system. While they were doing that the yanks too busy chasing #27. It seems the problem that ppl have is well we have the most money so shouldn’t we have the best or close to the best system. It doesn’t work like that especially when rebuilding of the system only occurred 4-5 yrs ago. Why do ppl think cashman brought in kevin towers and resigned bill livesey. He realizes the importance of having ppl from outside the org. play a role in identifying and drafting talent.
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The fish rots from the head down. I’m convinced Cashman is the principal source of the dysfunction.
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Agree Ernie. Its funny how all of us try to assign certain blame or credit to individuals in the Yankee hierarchy. Truth is Cashman has been GM of the Yankees for 12 years so to absolve him from all of the mistakes that have been made and to give him all the credit for the good things is prejudiced.
Also, to hammer Girardi for every lineup decision, player move, etc, yet to not put any blame on Cashman is ridiculous. Truth is Cashman hand picked Girardi for the job and they make decisions hand in hand.
Torre said he lost Cashman as an ally because they disagreed over the coaching staff and Joe refused to take Cashman’s lineup recommendations that were based soley on stats. This is taken directly from Torre’s book and sounds exactly what is going on right now. Too much reliance on the stat book and not enough of baseball sense.
I’m a Yankee fan and wanted Girardi as manager over my all-time fav Donnie Baseball but I disagree with A LOT of his decisions. Cash & Girardi have both done good and bad things in their tenure and to slam one while praise the other isn’t right since sometimes it seems like they share the same mind.
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I hope you don’t think Joe T wrote that book, some of the stuff in that book were flat out untruths! He threw guys under the bus and never…never once took any responsibility for not winning more WS, with all that money and high payroll! It was always someone else that let the team down…not him. If one disagrees with the boss, don’t be surprised if you are let go.
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Ken, truthfully, I never read the book. I just read the SI article by Torre & Tom Verducci and some of the excerpts:
1 – “I thought Cash was an ally, I really did,” Torre says. “You know, we had some differences on coaches, and the usefulness of the coaches. I know he didn’t think much of Guidry. And Zimmer….”
2 – The personal falling out over philosophical issues……….Cashman’s decision to not bring back Bernie Williams, his submission of odd lineup suggestions based on stats, his lack of regard for Guidry as pitching coach
I just bring these up to show that Cash and Torre started to disagree on things and Torre was subsequently not brought back. Cash replaced him with Girardi who shares many of the same beliefs and I believe they are running the team together in many ways now.
Good or bad, my only point is I think Cashman and Girardi need to be evaluated as a team because they are making joint decisions on things.
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Exactly ……Bravo……. Girardi in the Harvard Business Review article talked about how he cant get enough stats. He’s a saber geek. An engineer. Which is fine but it certainly proves he thinks like CashMan likes his mgr to think….playing the percentages.
The GM is the boss…the mgr’s moves are his responsibility…of course they collaborate on everything. Cashman is hands-on …jeez..he took Jeter to dinner to tell him to improve his range! Does anyone really think he is not pulling the strings on who is called up and who is getting playing time?
Psssst ,,,,someone wake up the “Odd Couple”.
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*Rings bell to wake up the odd couple*
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Ken – I read the book —-what untruths are you talking about? Please name 2 or more.
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Of course! I try to be open minded on the subject, but I just can’t understand the mindset of those who support him. What exactly has he done to merit the support?
You give Cashman the keys to the car 12 years ago and you give him an infinite pile of cash, and apart from the 2000 team (a team he had little to do with putting together)…what exactly has he left us with, if he were gone tomorrow? One world championship, a $200 million team fighting for a wild card spot, and a minor league system that is just plain bad. There is no way to spin the truth in a positive way – he must have accountability for the state of the Universe…how can he not?
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Not really, they were the second highest payroll (I am fairly sure of that).
They won because we lost, they didn’t beat us, we lost to them. Everyone stopped playing baseball at the same time, they thought; “We only need one more, that’s going to be easy, we already beat them three.” That team quit!
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Give Soscia or Maddon a $200 million team to work with and the Yanks would never make it out of the ALCS again.
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Ernie…
Say what….? Have you been in the sun to long?
I hope it was a misprint. Nope, I take it all back, I see what you are getting at!
For a minute there, you had me! I like the way Soscia manages his team…very aggressive. I am not sure if his style would cut it in NY with the press, he is a bit outspoken and sometimes short with the media.
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I’m sure many would say I’ve been out in the sun way too long, Ken.
My point is, some managers always seem to have their teams in the thick of it, no matter how much money they have to work with. Can the same be said for Girardi and the Yanks? Could we win it with a $100 payroll? Could we compete against a team that had our money to work with?
Think about it: its tough to play a Soscia-managed team, because we know we’ve got our work cut out for us – those guys play the game hard, and they are usually fundamentally very sound. I’d say the same is true for Maddon – its a fight…a fight I think we’d we’d lose without the money the Yanks have.
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Ernie, ernie…
I agreed with you already!
You are 100% right, although, I think Maddon has a few better players then does Soscia.
My question is; would Soscia or Maddon for that matter, be able to work under the same media hype as Joe G?
And to answer you second question; Yes? I think we could and will in the near future. I can see some good things coming out of the way Cashman and Company have been doing the last couple of years.
I will go on record saying; “Within the next 3-5 years the Yank will be WELL under the CAP.
I don’t see a big contract for Mo or Jeter in the future, more like one year deals with options and buy outs. I don’t care what record they may or may not set…a winning team, is first and foremost.
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I wasn’t criticizing Girardi as much as I was criticising the Yankee organization as a whole. IMO Girardi is not as good a manager as either Maddon or Soscia, but my point was that other managers are asked to do more with a lot less, and our FO has been able to hide their mediocrity behind a blank check.
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I’ll ask the question Ken: “Who cares if we’re under the cap?”
You think the Yankees aren’t making money, even with a $200 million payroll? We’re the second richest franchise in pro sports, behind Manchester United. If they put less money into the payroll, where do you think its going to go? Right into Hal, Hank, and levine’s pockets, that’s where.
And do you think we’ll win with a $140 million payroll? We’re lucky to win the wild card this year with a $200 million payroll.
And do you think the season ticket holders who pay $1500 seat per game will give a rats behind about the being under CAP when the Yanks are 10 games out of first in the first week of September? Every single Yankee fan will scream if the organization has the money to spend and don’t spend it on the best players…I know I would. I guarantee you the minute the Yanks start pinching pennies and start losing (exposing the FO for their true ability to produce a winner) fans everywhere will complain about all the money that the Yankees make but they don’t spend it on the players that are available.
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I for one have no problem if the yankees want to lower their problem. I think when fans hear that they get the impression that the team is going to be a small market ball club when that is definitely not the case.
Whats wrong if the payroll goes to 190 or 180 or even 171?
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Who cares about the payroll, BCD? Are they asking you to put up any of it? Why would you care one way or another?
At $171, or $180, or $190 million, you would not be under the luxury tax threshold anyway, so what’s the point of doing it? You’d still be outspending 29 other teams, so what is the value of that?
I think if and when the Yanks force themselves to live with a smaller payroll, you will finally see the FO and manager exposed for their true inability to put together a team. we are not the best team in the AL this year – we’re not even the best team in our own division – and we’re outspending everyone else by tens of millions.
To me, its a mystifying Yankee fans aren’t more enraged my the poor performance of this FO for the money they have to work with. Injuries to key players have exposed our lack of depth, and our minor league system is a wreck. Why does the FO keep getting a free pass?
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Ernie…
I think there has been a disconnect between what I am trying to say and what you are reading into it.
What I am trying to get at is;
I see many young guys coming up (some who will be traded), but others will be taking the place of the older guys on the way out.
The Yanks will be more and more involved in the International level then ever before (Maya for example).
Drafting wiser then before (Cash brought in a good guy to help).
They will spend more money on the system and organization then for high priced players.
They have been doing these things for the last couple years. As the cap is on players salarys, these things will bring the cap down while building the organization.
Still putting a winning team on the field. Besides that, who cares how much money Hal etc., make, it is their money…they can do what ever they eant with it. As long as they put a winning team on the field.
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Understanding the backdrop of this franchise as being the wealthiest in all of major league baseball:
Ok…who are the young guys – over the last 12 years of Cashman’s reign – who are ready to come in and take over?
How exactly do we know this? Because Cashman brought fresh blood into the FO recently? Isn’t this an acknowledgement that he hasn’t been able to get it done himself?
Do you really think that’s true? If the Yanks want Carl Crawford, you don’t think we’ll empty the bank for him? What are the odds that Gardner is in the outfield next year if we have Crawford? What’s the Yankee committment to youth there?
You really think this organization can build a (now dysfunctional) organization while at the same time bringing down player salaries? I suppose its all relative, but do you really see the Yankees happily operating at, say, $130 million? I don’t.
You are right, that is the bottom line in NY. And in order to do it in 2009, they had to spend nearly $500 million on free agents.
I don’t care how much money the FO makes…and I don’t care how much they spend either. I don’t care what the team payroll is. But evaluate the FO’s performance fairly: there is a very un-level playing field out there. The Yankees win because they can print money, not because they have a talented FO or management structure.
When the money dries up, the sh*t will hit the fan, big time. It already is. Look at the guys brought in this year, and the current state of this team, and tell me these guys have a clue.
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“At $171, or $180, or $190 million, you would not be under the luxury tax threshold anyway, so what’s the point of doing it? You’d still be outspending 29 other teams, so what is the value of that?”
the value is not being handcuffed by a large payroll yr after yr. That enormous number leaves very to no wiggle room in teams of moving players and salaries.
“I think if and when the Yanks force themselves to live with a smaller payroll, you will finally see the FO and manager exposed for their true inability to put together a team. we are not the best team in the AL this year – we’re not even the best team in our own division – and we’re outspending everyone else by tens of millions.”
Just because were aren’t the best team at the moment doesn’t mean we won’t be the best team at the end of the yr. Fans can’t do that they can’t take a snapshot of the team in May and assume it won’t improve as time goes on. And just because the payroll would be smaller that doesn’t mean the team would be an average one. A lower payroll doesn’t mean they will become a small market team.
“Injuries to key players have exposed our lack of depth, and our minor league system is a wreck. Why does the FO keep getting a free pass?”
What has been exposed exactly??? Posada got hurt but cervelli is filling in nicely, javy struggled but mitre steeped up and filled in. The only thing that has been “exposed” is the OF but look who they gave up recently melky-not hitting for the braves, tabata still working on his game in the minors, and a-jax who is projected by ppl to become curtis granderson who we already have on the team.
And the system is not a wreck rooster has more than once detailed the positive signs within the system
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BCD…
Before I hit the sack, let me say how nice it is to have a reasonable voice on this site, other then myself…of course.
I have never run into guys that can’t under stand how hard it is to change a company the size and scope of the New York Yankees.
Some people think the oil spill is hard to manage…that’s oil. Try changing the whole operation of the Yankees…that’s people, people are hard to deal with and takes time.
One can’t stand up and say, “This is the way we are doing things from now on” and have it work out. Oh, hell, why bother. In their eyes, we are in the wrong, let them think that way, I don’t care one way or another.
But, I sure had fun tonight, just tired out. See you later!
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OMG BCD…do you really think the Yanks are financially “handcuffed” in any way? You have definitely had too much of the FO Yankee Koolade to drink…you’re starting to believe their BS now. Any implied “handcuffing” by their payroll is purely for PR, and has nothing to do with the Yankee FO “trying to make ends meet.” They claim a need to control payroll in order to create a better negotiating position with FA players down the line (“we need to get payroll down”)…not because they can’t afford it, but to be more profitable. They are absolutely flush with cash – $20 million a year falls thru the holes in Hank’s pants pockets every year….there is no issue here at all.
I get that..not all fans who are frustrated by this team and their management are naive. But it had better improve…or they will be watching the PS from their living rooms this year. Believe me I know all about teams coming back from big deficits (read: ‘78 Yanks – saw it all), but the Yanks are no where near the class of the AL East this year, and injuries are not the sole reason. We don’t play the game as well or as hungry as Tampa does – we don’t. And we may be looking up at the Red Sox soon…they are starting to get their act together.
Pena in the OF?…Thames sucks in the OF…Winn…is this the best we have for the OF for $200 M?….Marte the only lefty in the pen…a bullpen where the only reliable answer is Mo (and he’s lost a little something since his injury)…the Captain is struggling offensively and defensively…Tex is in a 6 week slump, swinging poorly….A-Rod is inconsistant…CC has not been consistant…Vasquez is a problem…Joba is inconsistant and looks lost at times…no energy on the field…no agressiveness on the bases…no sense of urgency or hustle…playing every game from behind…not knowing how to manufacture runs when they are slumping…missing cut-off men…poor fundamental play over the last 3 weeks…looking old and tired. There is a lot to be concerned about, BCD.
BCD, you really need to spend some time researching this…having 8-10 guys showing promise in the minors does not a “system” make. There is widespread agreement among those that make a living evaluating minor league talent that the Yankee minor league system is middle of the pack at best, and most likely well below average. Many average or slightly above average players are working their way up, but apart from Romine and Montero there are no real “impact players” to speak of…ie: lots of Russos and Penas, and not much more than that. Considering the age of the core of this team, they are going to have to keep looking for answers outside of their system, because they do not have the pieces to carry on at a similar level of winning expectations.
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BCD! BCD! BCD! *the fans are on their feet*
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*waves @ the crowd*
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“They had to use Gardner full time because CashMan brought someone on the team that couldn’t field. Ridiculous.”
Marcus didn’t have to make the team. He could have been cut in ST. Hell some ppl were surprised he even make the big club. Joe G sat down and brought the best players north. I’m sure cashman gave his opinions but remember he brings in the players and joe G puts them in their proper place
“The compromise in the middle never happened because CashMan got personal and cut off his nose to spite his face and took a stupid risk with Nicky MASH unit Johnson.”
The Yankees offered 2 yrs/14 million dollars to damon and he rejected it. Many months later he signed with the tigers for 1 yr/8 million. I’m sorry but when the club makes you that offer and you reject it you don’t have a leg to stand on especially when you end up signing the deal you signed for months later. The compromise happened but the boras and damon overplayed their hand thinking the yanks would never show damon the door but they did. I can’t blame cash for damon rejecting the deal.
“When signing a utility outfielder you always have to consider the possibility the OFer will get time due to a starters injury. They are the primary back-up.To not anticipate this, or just as bad, not to assess their ability to handle the role, is proof of CashMan’s incompetence as a GM.”
Randy Winn is the 5th outfielder on the New York Yankees. Of course the GM knows injuries will occur but no one in their right mind would say Granderson goes on the DL and Swisher nurses an injury for all those days.
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Not bad BCD you broke even – you don’t graduate to take Ken (C&C)’s Greek Advanced Mathematical Course but you do get to sit next to Rooster at next off-season’s Bway show “CashMan’s Follies II” Enjoy. (watch your wallet)
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hey rooster is not a bad guy. He has a strong dislike for Joe G but we see eye to eye on cashman and the system so sitting next to him isn’t a bad thing as long as he doesn’t start calling for joe g’s head on a platter lol
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Hannibal Rooster will not only call for his head on a platter but he’ll eat it right in front of you!
“Beware of Roosters that fly over the cuckoos nest.”
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oh damn now I gotta rethink things lol
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I would say the 2005 season when wang and cano came up. Some fans and the media didn’t even know who they were. Hell they didn’t even know if they were good prospects. Among portions of the fan base they were viewed as stopgaps until the yankees could trade for or sign someone better.
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I still remember the trade deadline that season when the yankees were in need for some OF help because bernie was having a hard time in CF. The feeling in NY was Ibanez was the guy to go after and wang and maybe even cano would have to go in the deal. Cashman came out and said that they would not trade wang or cano because they have helped the team and they want to hold onto them. Yankee fans and especially mike and the mad dog laughed at that statement because it’s the yankees and they never build for the future.
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It’s always about winning now and they would trade any young player if they it meant a chance to win the WS. This time was different. The trade deadline came and went with wang/cano still on the team. Wang and cano performing well in 2005 showed cashman:
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that the org. could produce players from their system
that younger players can step up in a time of need
that their prospects can gain valuable ML experience
that the team had to get younger as well as look from within first and then outside second
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Now of course this is NY and they still lean toward vets in some situations but as rooster said cashman is laying the foundation for the future. I was on the YES board and many fans painted a bleak future when the team missed the post season in 08. I felt that many of the pieces were already here and the future although not a guarantee was not as bad as ppl made it out to be.
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Cashman’s biggest play was getting more power within the org. That way he allow the organization to focus more on developing the system and letting older players go. Now yes he has made his fair share of mistake which have been pointed out by numerous members on here but he is taking steps to build a team that is flexible. The problem he’s going to run into is the older players on the team that are not ready to leave
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Very good – I like the lines….BCD! BCD! BCD! You have a future in the top ten here.
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Did you know CashMan offered Cano in a deal for Santana?
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He offered cano? I know hughes was thrown in by santana. Not sure if cashman offered up cano. I’m not saying you’re a liar or anything like that but there were so many packages written in the paper after a while you lose count
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sorry BCD – he offered Cano – he admits it ….when being water-boarded
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water-boarding thats harsh you’re dislike for cashman is very strong
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WE INTERRUPT THIS BLOG TO BRING YOU AN IMPORTANT MESSAGE FROM OUR SPONSOR
“TWASP does not support water-boarding, electric shock,nail-pulling, chinese water torture or noogies”
….unless used for medical reasons as advised by the AMA ie Charmin Low Park’s diarreah…
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lol @ noogies
SAVE IT!!!!!!!
still one of the funniest videos I have ever seen
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yep
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Yes I remember big george taking on 3 guys in one night.
I laughed out loud at your post BP …. very funny!
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hughes was thrown in by hank not santana sorry about that
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There vid on the internet barechested Melky with hot blondes. (with Cano)
He parties almost as much as Grandy “the girls are handy” Granderson.
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I’m going to hit the bed. As always guys it has been fun take care and I’m sure we’ll chat tomorrow
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take care BCD!
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Rooster called the person who wrote the Arod book “the dog-faced woman”.
It is maybe the funniest reference ever written in iYankees history.
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Ken did you forget that CashMan who is supposedly committed to youth
- traded Ajax
- traded IPK
- is probably going to sign Crawford and trade Gardner
- signed Randy Lost (37) instead of bringing up Russo
- signed Marcus Tums (34) instead of bringing up Golson
- signed Nicky J(32) instead of bringing up Miranda
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….and I’m betting Cervelli is gone, if Romine or Montero sticks…let’s see what we get back…
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If we trade Cervelli the only person I would want ….. is the one….. and only ……. Ken (OR)…….(thought I’d say JD?)
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Good counter Ken….. but Ernie is a tough customer….watch his left hook…..
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Here’s my left hook, Ken….welcome to the 700 club….(and you to 600 HD…)
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Its after 10pm….BCD must be in the houuuuuuuse!
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*sways from side to side with shades on*
whats up twasp
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“How exactly do we know this? Because Cashman brought fresh blood into the FO recently? Isn’t this an acknowledgement that he hasn’t been able to get it done himself?”
I guess you can look at it that way but you can also look at it as him trying to get outside points of view to strengthen the organization.
“Ok…who are the young guys – over the last 12 years of Cashman’s reign – who are ready to come in and take over?”
For a number of those 12 yrs he worked for a boss that had no need for young players. Now maybe cashman should have stood up sooner than he did but with george being the guy that he is…there was no way he was going to let that happen. I remember francesa telling a story that cashman told him at a yankee morning breakfast. After the yankees went to the 01 WS and lost to the d’backs George went cashman and said alright we did it you’re way and now we’re to do it my way. If he’s going to say that to the GM of a team that won 3 WS why on earth would he care for young players
“You really think this organization can build a (now dysfunctional) organization while at the same time bringing down player salaries? I suppose its all relative, but do you really see the Yankees happily operating at, say, $130 million? I don’t.”
They might not operate that low but who can say they won’t operate at 160 or 175. Lets be clear about something a vast majority of the players on the team are paid more than they are worth. A-rod who I’m a fan of is one of them.
“When the money dries up, the sh*t will hit the fan, big time. It already is. Look at the guys brought in this year, and the current state of this team, and tell me these guys have a clue.”
You mean stop gap guys like winn and thames who after this yr have no future with the club. You mean guys like johnson who was brought in on a one yr deal and won’t be resigned. The guys they brought in were not huge improvements but pieces added to the puzzle.
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I wouldn’t count on getting the payroll to $170 Million in the near future. Looking 3 yrs into the future, the Yanks already have $110 Million committed to just 5 players in 2013. Players ages in ().
1) ARod $29m (38)
2) CC $24.3m (33)
3) Tex $23.1m (33)
4) AJ $16.5m (36)
5) Cano $15m (31)
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doesn’t that come out to 107
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BCD – Their 5 salaries actually come out to $107,912,000 if you want to be exact. The other $2 million is the amount they will pay to buy Granderson’s option out. I only included the guaranteed money.
If they excercise their club option, they get Granderson for $13 Million and you are up to $121 Million for 6 players:
1) ARod $29m (38)
2) CC $24.3m (33)
3) Tex $23.1m (33)
4) AJ $16.5m (36)
5) Cano $15m (31)
6) Curtis $13m (32)
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121 million dollars is a lot of money especially for 6 players. Thats why when ppl mention getting both lee and crawford I just don’t see it happening.
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Great post, Fish…I guess we need four more guys to fill out our starting 9…and everyone plays every day – a 9-man roster. (AJ might have to play RF).
Then we’ll be under $170 million.
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” believe Cashman is a poor evaluator of baseball talent, with a blank checkbook masking his near complete ineptitude.”
If he gets the blame for his mistakes does he get praised for making the right moves.
“I get it, BCD, I get it…I have been playing organized baseball for 35 years…point taken, but that is no excuse for accepting such poor judgement on the FA’s behalf and uninspired play on the team’s behalf.”
No one is accepting their poor play. No one is saying how the team is playing is ok. The thing is this the team hit a rough patch…it happens. A few weeks ago the red sox looked dead but now all I hear is ohhh watch out the red sox are making a big move. When a team is struggling they are going to look bad.
“Why is that such an outlandish concept, from the weathiest baseball team on planet earth? The real question is: why do some fans accept less from this organization?”
Because fans should not make the connection that the most money=best system. It doesn’t work like that at all. It’s like saying the richest ppl in the world live a life of complete happiness.
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Obviously having the most money doesn’t mean the best system – the Yankees had the highest payroll in MLB from 2001-2008 and we didn’t win a WS, while several small market teams with much smaller payrolls did.
But if you have 2 clubs, and one has $80 million to spend, and the other has $200 million to spend, and their performance on the field is comparable, then you have to conclude that the team spending less money is doing more with less, and the team spending more money is doing less for more. Doing more = making smarter moves, evaluating talent better, being more resourceful…BD, you have to see this…if you spend as much money as the Yanks do and are being outplayed, there is a problem there. Some of it is the players doing…but some of it is the FO and management too – that cannot be rationally denied.
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You make a very good point about a team spending less being able to stand toe to toe with a 200 million dollar payroll.
With that being said and I’m sure you know this there are going to be moments and times when you’re going to get your butt handed to you no matter how much money you spend.
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Of course, and thank goodness this is still true, otherwise all you would need to do to win is spend more money…I am not a fan of that in any sport.
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Neither am I although I do like it when the yankees put the money back in the team
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Of course, and that’s a pretty important point, BCD.
Teams that are charged a luxury tax often complain that small market teams don’t put that money back into their team payroll…they pocket the money rather than reinvesting in their team.
The Yanks are a revenue-generating machine…their revenue isn’t going down anytime soon either – if anything, its trending in the opposite direction. If they were to reduce their payroll down to $140-150 million, for example, and find themselves out of the playoff mix, I can guarantee you that fans shelling out big money for tickets (as well as those at home) will complain that the Yanks are not spending the money they make on their players.
You are damned if you do and damned if you don’t.
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Ha Ha…I still believe in Cashman.
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no I didn’t
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Or we got an ex-all star. Who’s ba,obp,slg % doubles and triples and ops+ has been in free fall since the end of 2007.
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even with his down season last yr he still went to the all-star game. I’m not going to write him off just yet
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1- Yea there plan was to play thames against tough lefties but that was put aside when gardner started to heat up
2-They wanted damon and were willing to go 2 yrs with him but his ego got in the way. I don’t put the blame on cashman when damon and boras go out of their way to make demands and then are shocked when the team decides to move in a different direction.
3-I’ll give you nick johnson
4-Randy Winn was not meant to be in the starting role. When he was signed ppl though ok so he’ll take over for swish late in games.
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Twasp if you want to go negative then you are right but I choose not too. I will only comment on Gardner and blame Jackass for not playing him last year when he earned to CF position. Girardi forced that issue on Cashman. You need to assign blame to whom it belongs.
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ha ha .249ba and a 100 OPS+ ….your reaching now…..
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How much did he pay for his ticket?
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OK last lesson – then you’re on your own—
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We’ll see what happens to Gardner and Thames when Granderson gets healthy…
Lots of egos involved here…Damon, Boras, and Cashman…probably the FO above Cashman too.
Don’t want him…never did.
If that’s true, why is he out there? Because we have injuries? You mean our stellar minor league system has no one we can bring up, given our committment to youth?
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100,000 dollars it wasn’t cheap but he got in
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I’m still not going to write him off I’m sorry I’m not going to do that especially with the players we gave up
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Yeah – I hope he stops partying in his upper east side crib and starts taking more batting practice against LHs.
Grandy says: “Lets party …..all night long….all night long…”
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I agree on Gardner over Melky – should have happened earlier.
If criticizing CashMan for poor roster construction, risky turnover of a championship team and many years of losing (with the worlds largest baseball payroll)..is what you call negative thats your opinion. I’m just calling what Im seeing.
PS – If you’ve read my posts Ive applauded his steal of Swisher and his faith in Hughes and his holding off on the Santana deal. TWASP can be positive!!! Also Nicky J was a stroke of genius – he comes with his own stretcher and discounted medical benefits (quantity)!
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I have no idea who was for who or if they both agreed on Melky…so I wont assign blame to either and just say …yes….it seemed obvious to me that Gardner was better defensively and offensively than AAAA Melky. (but Melky did keep the team happy – not with pies – but with cell #s of porn stars)
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Where?
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T-MAN GETS DOUBLE TEAMED AND STILL BREAKS THROUGH TO SACK THE QB,OVER AND OVER AGAIN.
I have to give BCD credit he kept on punching even when he wasn’t landing,the kid got knocked down 3 times and the fight was stopped.Roost gave up when T-MAN broke out the big guns and this was after putting KEN to sleep.
Twasp you remind me of the time George Foreman fought 3 guys in the same night.Do you remember that?
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The team is playing poorly an most overreact. It could have just as easily been Cashman being hailed for his skillful changes to a WS winning roster.
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Twasp says:
May 24, 2010, 7:01 pm at 7:01 pm (Quote)
Yes I remember big george taking on 3 guys in one night.
I laughed out loud at your post BP …. very funny
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Ken (C&C) Phelps banged 14 home runs in half a season in 1988. Impressed by this George Steinbrenner made a trade that the Yankee franchise would soon regret, shipping youngster Jay Buhner to Seattle in exchange for the now aging slugger. The trade made little sense we already had Don Mattingly and Jack Clark to play first base and DH. With limited playing time once again, Phelps found it difficult to maintain his production , Buhner went on to become an All-Star.
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Melky is useless!
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Not if you need a hooker.
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lol where do you get this idea that he’s some type of party animal? Is it another one of your jokes or real information
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Real – there was an article in the NY Post page 6 column.
TWASP has all the scoops.
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BCD there was a video of him with some dog faced woman! (for you Twasp)
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oh ok I didn’t know that. I was wondering why in the world does twasp post that every time granderson’s name is brought up lol
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TWASP INSTANT EDITOR
The team is playing poorly an most overreact. It could have just as easily been
CashmanGirardi being hailed for his skillfulchanges tomanaging a WS winning roster.Like or Dislike:
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BCD is in the houuuuuse! MELKY is in the Houuuuuuuse! Grandy is in the Houuuuuuuse!
*music starts*
“All the single ladies…all the single ladies…..put your hands up…put your hands up…..if you want it then you shoulda put a WS ring on it!”
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lol hilarious from the in the house stuff to the single ladies reference
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Laughing Twasp just laughing….OMG
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Oh famed Stinger, why have I been dragged into the Phelps thing? I never said a word about him? Heck, at the time, everyone not name “The Boss”, knew that was a bad deal.
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Oh famed Stinger, why have I been dragged into the Phelps thing? I never said a word about him? Heck, at the time, everyone not name “The Boss”, knew that was a bad deal.
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Ooops! Double posted. Sorry ’bout that.
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ouch dog faced woman….boy thats rough lol
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As a manager, Ken (as I was before I started my own company), you know as well as anyone else that every manager is asked to work within a specified budget…and usually that budget is well below what you’d like it to be. And no GM that I know of has “total control” of anything – who said they did? That is the nature of being a manager. You are accountable even though you do not have full control. And the budget he has to work with is much more than anyone else in baseball has to work with, so I can’t exactly feel sympathy for Cashman.
Ken…Cashman has more support than any other GM in baseball. If 5 years of “total control” and 12 years of “limited control” isn’t enough of a sample size, what’s fair?
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Considering Cashman is probably the person most directly responsible for Girardi sitting in the Yankee dugout and providing ongoing support for him, this is a very surprising comment coming from you, Rooster.
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* Ernie asks a good question *
* Jeopardy music plays – da da da da da da da *
* Ken scratches head *
* Dead silence …. crickets croak *
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The one thing you forget, starting a company you have a choice of the people you hire (as I did). You go about the task by finding people with your out look on how the job should be done.
In this case, Cashman had people in place he had to supplant with the ones he wanted. This takes time, more so in a company that is as large as they are.
We have had good players come up thru the system, are you forgetting; IPK, Coke, A-jax, Cano, Joba, Phil, Ace, Brett, Maranda, Cervelli, Russo, D-Rob and Pena? With a few more on the way.
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Turtlewax commercial break from Jeopardy….
(I’m sure Ken has a good response…he’s probably living a real life instead of sitting at his laptop like me….).
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There arre a few good players in the mix, Ken…and you didn’t mention the 2 catchers in the minors….but for 12 years work and a bottomless payroll…this is the full extent of his contribution?
IPK: Good….ok, granted, but top of rotation in AL east? Not likely.
Coke: Good…should have kept him.
A-Jax: Good, but gone.
Cano: very solid, but not really Cashman’s doing.
Joba: A work in progress…TBD
Phil: Thank goodness…a break thru.
Ace: Ok
Brett: Like him…not sure they are committed to him.
Miranda: Give you this one…can swing the bat for sure.
Cervelli: Love the guy.
Russo: Good…needs time.
D-Rob: Hoping he regains last year’s form.
Pena: Ok.
…..but…….is that really all we have to show for the last 5 years of full control, with all our vast resources? Some of the best of the group you mentioned were traded away. Of those we have left, only Cano, Phil and Joba seem to have the stuff to be in the elite groups in their catagories. Brett is a solid ballplayer, but he could go either way at this point. I guess I expect more from an organization like the Yankees for all the money and man power they supposedly bring to the table. Lots of other teams out there building much better young players we do with a lot less in the way of resources.
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Take into consideration the spot in draft they have had the last 15+ years, they have done a good job. !5 years ago until about 2000 even the Rsox had much better spots to draft from. We have been one of the last teams in the draft since the 90’s.
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Sooner rather than later randy winn will be cut and everyone will get their wish
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I think I get that, Ken…but 12 years into his GM role, and 5 years into a true control of the team, I expect more from Cashman. I know it takes time, but I am thinking there should be more results by now, especially given his resources. I don’t think he has good baseball judgement/sense. I don’t think he always does business in an honorable way. I think he lets his emotions factor into his negotiating processes, and he doesn’t strike me as someone I could count on to watch my back.
The more of a controlling role he seems to take with the club, the more I find myself questioning the bodies I see on the field wearing Yankee uniforms – “how did he get out there?”
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thank you Ken I enjoy reading your posts as well because of the insight you bring. I think some fans don’t realize that the organization have/had made changes. When individuals mention lowering the payroll they assume the yankees will become a small market team. When individuals bring up the emergence of young players they quickly say well our system is bad and the players here aren’t as good as players on other team. Of course they are still areas where they need to work on but to just completely trash the organization is not right. Cashman as you said decided to change the course of the team at the end of 2005. He was the one that said we need to focus on the farm system, unite tampa and NY, and move toward trying to become cost effective. Of course this is the yankees and they will always have free agents but the plan as Hal stated is “You have to have a good balance of young players and veterans.” So yes this will never be an all homegrown team nor should it be but the yankees realized it shouldn’t be an all-star team either
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If they aren’t handcuffed by the payroll then why do they cut corners in other places. Why are guys like johnson, winn, and thames only on the team as for one yr. As rooster mentioned those are stopgap players. If they aren’t handcuffed by the payroll then why is the bullpen outside of mo and marte made up of relievers that don’t make any money what so ever. Why do you think gardner is playing LF. Hell last yr melky and garder played center field.
Ernie as I said before just because they are not the best team right now doesn’t mean they won’t be the best team when it’s all said and done. Baseball is a game of peaks and valleys. Are ppl forgetting the yankees started the seasn off red hot. I’m not denying that the have things to fix but fans just can’t write them off at this point in the season. And there is no doubt in my mind that it will improve. Did anyone expect the pitching to be lights out all yr..no of course not. Did ppl expect cano to hit 9 hrs every month…no of course not. This is baseball. It’s a game built on hot and cold streaks.
The things you stated are a concern but there is no need to panic because these are the ups and downs of a baseball season. Ppl talk about us losing to the mets lol well last yr we lost to the nats at home!!!. My thing is I’m not going to go overboard when they cool after being hot to start the season.
Listen I’m not saying that the system is the best in baseball but at the same time it’s a wreck or in shambles that many ppl believe it is. I mentioned the lack of impact players in one of the threads on here. Fans seem to be very hung up on not producing prospects every few months like a factory. What more do ppl want???? Do they want to best farm system in baseball???
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I believe Cashman is a poor evaluator of baseball talent, with a blank checkbook masking his near complete ineptitude.
I get it, BCD, I get it…I have been playing organized baseball for 35 years…point taken, but that is no excuse for accepting such poor judgement on the FA’s behalf and uninspired play on the team’s behalf.
Who is panicking?
Why is that such an outlandish concept, from the weathiest baseball team on planet earth? The real question is: why do some fans accept less from this organization?
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