Jorge’s at it again…
December 15, 2009, 7:00 pm by iYankees · 25 Comments
During the winter of 2007, Jorge Posada, the team’s outspoken catcher, explicitly stated that the Yankees needed an “No. 1” starter in the form of Johan Santana. This proclamation seemed to indirectly slight the team’s de facto ace at the time, Chien-Ming Wang, as well as the club’s younger players who would have been traded for Santana.
This winter, it appears as though Posada is, once again, voicing his opinion about the team’s current pitching staff and, once again, he’s doing so at the expense of his fellow teammates, specifically, Phil Hughes and Joba Chamberlain.
“We have to try to get one more starter. I think that Cashman knows it. I think it’s a priority for us,’’ Posada told Sweeny Murti and Ed Coleman today on WFAN Radio. “Hopefully, we can get that.’‘
I understand being candid about a team’s flaws, however, this form of public rumination seems rather abrasive to me. How do Phil Hughes, Joba Chamberlain and, to a lesser extent, Alfredo Aceves, Chad Gaudin, and Sergio Mitre feel about their catcher’s lack of confidence in their abilities as starting pitchers? Sure, Posada is simply piggybacking on Brian Cashman’s recent admission about adding arms to the team, yet Cashman is the General Manager. Expressing those thoughts are sometimes part of his job. Jorge Posada’s job, in my opinion, does not include discussing these matters publicly as this could, in turn, lessen or bankrupt the rapport established amongst the team’s players.
Then again, if Posada was willing to tacitly undermine Chien-Ming Wang, who had won 38 games in the two seasons prior to Posada’s comments about needing an ace in 2007, I guess I shouldn’t be surprised that he’s willing to do the same with both Hughes and Chamberlain (perhaps he still believes that Joba is better suited for the bullpen).
Original photo by Getty Images
We have to try to get one more “catcher”!! Preferably one that doesn’t run the bases like he has a piano on his back and remembers to step on third base instead of running into leftfield during a rundown!
Something “about people in glass houses……”
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well I feel the catcher should be commenting on the quality ( or lack of ) of the pitching staff. after all he is THE CATCHER & he would know the pitchers ( good & bad ) better than anyone else .. even better than the GM who probably doesn’t really know much about any of the players other from what he’s heard from others
(
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I think somethings should just remain unsaid. For instance, when Posada said he thought Joba should stay in the bullpen. That, in my opinion, could have (and for all we know it might have) created an awkward situation for Joba once he was moved to the rotation and was working with Posada. While I didn’t speak about this in my post, this is also not helping Brian Cashman bargain with FA starters when his catcher is on the radio saying that his team needs a new starter.
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as I said before the catcher knows the pitchers better than anyone… last time I checked the current manager of the yankees is/was a catcher.. posada just might be the smartest player on the team & he just might be managing the yankees one day
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Obviously, in the future, only catchers should be hired as managers.
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They do tend to make the best ones… I’m not saying all managers should be catchers but look at all the successful managers that are catchers right now… It’s really the only position that makes you a manager/player at the same time because you have to deal with all kinds of people in the pitching staff and you have to call a baseball game.
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“this is also not helping Brian Cashman bargain with FA starters when his catcher is on the radio saying that his team needs a new starter.”
EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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everyone already knows the yankees have the deepest pockets of all teams if there’s a decent pitcher available that really wants to play for the yankees he just might be willing to take less money to play for them as opposed to playing elsewhere for more cash
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How often does that happen?
Usually even if they want to play for the Yankees they make us pay more because they know we can… Having deep pockets usually runs up the price not drops it.
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so i guess posadas not allowed to speak the ovious truth, that his team needs more starting pitching! man, l gotta say, iam amazed by the stupidity out there by alot of yankee fans n writers. atleast posada has the guts to say that there actually is moves to make in order for this team to win! lets not wory about peoples feelings over doing whats best for the team. I dont think jobas somewhere crying. why is it that you people cant realize that yankees are worth a ton of money and they made even more this year with the world series. Why should i be happy with going after secondtier injury risk starters and heavily have to rely unproven Joba and Hughes when they are beter suited inthe pen to fill that need. Halladay or even Lackey would of put us in an amazing spot, but now things are questionable. Another holeis LF/DH…and its so odd that most people including the yankees dont understand that Matt Holliday is the ANSWER! Hes “mark texiera “ special…we need to replace the production that Matsui n Damon provided. This would also complete the upgrade ofour out field. Matt Holliday is young, athletic, right handed, runs the bases well…plus he wants to play for the yankees and is another great guy to have in the clubhouse…putting Holliday in this line up for the next 6 years makes perfect sence! So anyway im really baffled by the anti- big trades, big signings…i willalways want my Y ANKEES to get as good as they possibly can! And lets face it, The Yankees need a verry solid (id rather have a second ace) starting pitcher…and they also need arun producing Left Fielder to protect ARod and replace the nearly 200 rbis that are currently off the roster!!!! Good for you POSADA!!!!
Hot debate. What do you think?
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First, try paragraphs next time.
Now, in terms of Posada, this is the same man who once told us to “Keep an eye” on Eric Hacker. He’s also the same guy who wanted Johan Santana in 2007 (had we acquired him in ‘07, that means no CC, no Hughes as a setup man, no Joba as a starter in 2009). He’s no pitching evaluator. He can speak his mind, that’s fine, but when his opinion is publicized and becomes a detriment to the team, then it is an issue. Also, the Yankees don’t have many options left for what you referred to as “verry solid starting pitcher,” meaning that Joba and Hughes may round out the rotation. If that’s the case, Posada will look foolish come spring training when he’s supposed to mentor these pitchers and coax good innings out of them. How can they take him seriously if, just a few months earlier, he said that they should be replaced?
Also, there’s no need to opine about Matt Holliday to me or to most of the readers who follow along. I’ve been noting how great he would be for weeks — months maybe — yet I’ve come to the realization that it may not be a realistic want. The Yankees payroll currently sits around $188-193M. If that’s the case, it will be difficult for the team to spend on a premier corner OF.
The funny thing is, you end your comment with “Good for you Posada,” yet if the Yankees go out and sign a pitcher, Matt Holliday most likely won’t be an option. Yes, if the Yankees take their catcher’s advice, which you seem to love, your dream LF won’t be in pinstripes. These are all things you have to consider.
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it’s just as easy to read a post whether or not it’s properly paragraphed, the point is still made. we can all be right , we can all be wrong , but it’s still fun to speculate & play fantasy manager. I think that posada has a pretty good rapport with girardi & I have not yet heard anyone else on the yankees team telling posada to shut up
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The point was still made, albeit in a all over the place sort of way (what point you’re referring to specifically, since he made a couple, is still unclear).
And, obviously, you won’t hear Posada being told to shut up. If anything, if such a conversation were to occur, it would occur behind closed doors. I don’t think it has or will occur, though, I’m just noting that not hearing about something doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.
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I’m with Chris, I don’t mind he said it but I do mind he said it to the public!
If Posada thinks we need more starting pitching than he has the right to go to Cashman and Girardi and tell them so and see if they listen gut to say it on the radio is simply stupid on his part.
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James .. you’re the smartest dude on here.. Well said
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I do enjoy reading your blog from time to time but now I see you are the type of person who either uses quotes out of context or you are the type of person who likes to capitalize on making people look bad. Either way you look like a fool to those of us who heard that actual conversation. Posada did say that they do need another starter and after he said that he said that if they were to go into the season with Joba and hughes that they were proven starters that could get the job done.
It is not wise to misinterpret other people’s words for your advantage. You lose the respect of your readers. It appears to me that you are blogging about this as if Posada was talking directly to you and you knew exactly where he was coming from. Furthermore, he is totally correct in saying what he said. You cannot go into a season with just 5 starters. You do need another man to help out that rotation. You look at the recent yankees championship teams and you will notice that it took more than five starters to do the job. In fact it takes a whole entire pitching staff to pull it together. THat is why major league roster are design to hold 40 players.
You come across as someone who has probably never played sports or if you did play sports you weren’t apart of winning teams. Teams need players such as Posada who have the balls to say what is on their mind and hold people accountable on a daily basis. The guy is a 5 time champion!!! He isn’t afraid to answer questions from people like you that will misconstrue what he says and try to make a story out of something that isn’t a story.
Your blog should been about comparing and contrasting the mind of leader and a follower. Yes it sounds like he slighting his team mates but if you really think he is knocking his team mates then you do not know a thing about what it takes to be a winner. Those guys in that club house will go through a wall for each other and posada is always the first one answering questions or the first to stand up for his team mates.
It is to no wonder why the team won a championship the very next year after getting rid of the heartless Mr. I need to pitch on the days that are starred on my calendar Mussina and Mr. I just want to be one of the guys Giambi. Those two ruined that clubhouse from day one with their lack of accountability and selfishness. Winners are not clubhouse guys who are polite and courteous. Winners live for the clubhouse and do whatever it takes to make sure everyone in the clubhouse is on the same page about winning!
If Joba and Hughes do not want to be after thoughts they need to step up to the mound and live up to their expectations. Its been 3 years how long can one talk about the future of these players? Its time to live up to that potential. To tell you the truth Stars are born and come screaming right out of the gate. They are not groomed to be stars. That type of coddling does not work. Jeter, Rivera, A-Rod, Andy, and Posada all were thrown into the fire from the beginning of their careers. Enough with the Joba Rules and the hughes clues! Let them go out there and do their job so that a year from now they can be the mainstay of that rotation.
You want them to be taken seriously? Then hold them accountable for their potential.
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First, I enjoy that you enjoy reading the blog. Now, remember, this is a blog. I’m not a reporter. I use texts provided by reporters for much of what I do and then comment on that. For this story, I used the text provided by Pete Caldera and commented in relation to that. Perhaps Caldera used Posada’s quote out of context if you are, indeed, accurate. That, I’m not sure, although I’ll try to listen to Posada’s interview myself. But, I can assure you that I don’t “misrepresent” the words of others and for that reason, you don’t need to lecture me on the issue.
Also, attempting to attack me personally, saying that I have never played sports before is laughable. Although I have played sports (all types) for years, prior to going to college, those experiences are of no consequence here on this blog (they don’t make me smarter about one issue or the next). That comment is also a tremendous slight at those who discuss baseball yet have never played the game for whatever reason (physical ailments, no program in their community, etc.). Should they be left out of the conversation because they haven’t played? Perhaps I shouldn’t speak on Major League Baseball at all since I’ve never had an at-bat against Randy Johnson?
You also say, “my blog should been about comparing the mind of leader and a follower.” That’s fine and it sounds like an interesting perspective. If you believe that, I can direct you to Wordpress and you can begin your own blog and write that post. I wrote a post that I wanted to write. I wrote what I felt. Plus, I disagree with your statement that “winners are not clubhouse guys who are polite and courteous.” I think CC Sabathia, Derek Jeter, these guys would respectfully disagree with you.
Finally, saying Joba and Hughes “need to step up to the mound and live up to their expectations” is exactly what they attempted to do last season. Hughes, as a relief pitcher, was one of the biggest reasons we made it to the WS. He stepped up. Joba had his first full season as a starter. He stepped up, despite the mixed results. You’re basically saying, not that the two need to step up, but that we should get another starter and block their ability to step up. That’s baffling to me.
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Posada’s leadership,thoughts, free speech etc. are not the issue. Jorge can tell his teammates,Cashmnan and Santa Claus anything he wants.
Just think before you speak and realize who you are talking to. The Yankees are trying to put themselves in the best possible position to get the best possible players at the most reasionable prices…..a far cry from the past.
Unless. he now considers himself a mouthpiece for the agents like Jon Heyman he should in this case be quietly diplomatic in public.
He may not have done it on purpose. OTOH, maybe this is why some of the pitchers have not loved having him as a catcher….can you imagine some of those conversations on the mound.
BTW, I wouldn’t consider his relationship with Girardi as bad one but I also would not consider it all that great!
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Once again you dont get it…the yankees may set agoal of lowering payroll, but we all know they dont have to. The Yankees are loaded with money espechialy with the new stadium and all the money that a world series brought in. The main reason they won last year was because the moves that were made. You say that the Yankees cant bring in a pitcher and Holliday but thats looking at it blindly. if you’re gona save money then yea we cant do much. But the Yankees have more then enough money to add one starting pitcher and a quality outfielder. What is the point of spending all this money to have a great team with players like Jeter and MO who wont be even playing for too much longer, when you’re not willing to just make that one or two extra moves to put your team over the top and win while we still have the luxury of having the winning core of Jeter, ARod, Posada, Pettitte, and MO…A Team that charges $1500 for a seat behind the plate, ithink owes it totheir fans to spend money on the teams ovious needs instead of lowering pay roll after a World Series!!!!
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Apparently you don’t get it… None of us care if they spend 200 billion dollars a year on the team but the guys actually spending the money do! They can sell just as many tickets with Sheets and DeRosa or Sheets and Thome as they could with Sheets and Holliday the only difference is they make more money in their pockets if they don’t spend 128 million on Holliday.
The Yankees like it or not have a budget this year and don’t plan on going past it… Someone of us may want both Holliday and Sheets but it isn’t going to happen and in fact it appears as if The Yankees don’t want Holliday even if they didn’t work on a budget and I am fine with that. I think we can be just as good of a team with Sheets and Thome anyway.
With Melky – Granderson and Swisher you have an above average defensive outfield and with Granderson and Melky’s bats being switched basically you have an average to above average offensive outfield as well.
With Posada, Arod, Jeter, Cano and Tex we have a great infield as well… If we add a guy like Thome who can hit 35-40 HRs in a season in Yankee stadium to DH while maintaining an OBP of .360+ we will have one of the best offenses and defenses in the league. If Sheets can stay healthy we also have one of the best rotations in the league just short of the Red Sox (but we have a much better offense and a defense on par or better than their)and we are in prime position to repeat!
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I see your point and he probably should keep quite for his teammates sake. But it’s not like Cashman hasn’t said the same things.
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He is the GM if he wants to choose what he says that is fine but a player doesn’t know exactly what does and does not give away leverage.
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